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Dorinne Davis,  "TITLE: The Tomatis Method, and Other Sound Therapies."

Tuesday,  May 27th at 9 p.m. (Eastern), Note portions of the text have been edited for spelling and grammatical errors, while other text with errors was left in tact in the context of the chat.


Rebecca {public msg} Hello and Welcome to our talkAutism Specialty Chat. If you have a question for our Host Speaker, "Dorinne Davis, The Tomatis Method, and Other Sound Therapies", Just type a ? in the room. The names will be taken in order received. Hold your questions until you are cued by the Moderator. Also, Please keep chit chat down to a minimal, unless ok'd by the Host. Thank You and enjoy your stay!

Rebecca {public msg} hello Anna and sunny
sunny {public msg} hi
Annaleeg {public msg} I want to find out more about the Tomatis Method. It just might help Zach.
Moderator {public msg} great Anna stick around you will enjoy it and find it helpful.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Hello and glad to be here. If you tell me a little about Zach perhaps I can give you some information.
Nicolehotchick2 {public msg} i want to know about it as it may help my clients.
Moderator {public msg} great Nicole right place your at.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Do you work with autistic children or adults? and in what capacity?
Nicolehotchick2 {public msg} i am an ABA therapist.
Nicolehotchick2 {public msg} i have worked with both.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Would you like for me to discuss Tomatis in general first and then you all may have questions?
Nicolehotchick2 {public msg} in private, residential and vocational.
Nicolehotchick2 {public msg} yes please.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Dr. Alfred Tomatis was a French ENT whose parents were opera singers.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} His first clients were mom and dad's friends.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} After awhile he discovered certain things happening to their voices.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} And started his search for answers.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} He created a device called the Electronic Ear.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} It is his research that discovered that there is a connection between the voice , the ear, and the brain.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} He created a science called audio-psycho-phonology.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} His technique connecting the voice, ear and brain was verified at the French Academy of Science in 1957.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} He created a law called the Tomatis Effect which in effect states that the voice produces what the ear hears.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} He began working with people of all ages.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} But noticed how many changes he made with these people.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} There is a story about him working with a group of monks in France.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} They had stopped singing their chants at the abbot's order.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} They got depressed and couldn't do much.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} They brought in food specialists, choir masters, and other specialists.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Finally Dr. T was asked to come. After reviewing their cases, he started them chanting again.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} He also started having them listen to a special program thru his Electronic Ear. Within a short period of time, their vitality improved and the voice quality with chants improved. They also started eating again. It is only recently that The Tomatis Method has been used with the autistic.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} In Europe it is used with many different populations, including adults who are depressed. It is used with learning disorders too. The way it works is through special programming of music through the Electronic Ear. It is the Electronic Ear that makes the change. The Electronic Ear basically has three components: filtered and gated music, bone conduction stimulation, and active voice work. The programming comes from interpretation of the Listening Test, a test proprietary to the method. The Listening Test tells me about vestibular function, receptive/expressive language, and attention/focus.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} It also can tell me about what we call selectivity of sound differences, and localization of sounds. From this information I set the programs for the listener. Every person's program is different and individualized. They listen for 2 hours per day for 15 days straight. Then they have approximately 30 days off and come back for another series. In my office we come back for another 15 days.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} For the autistic child especially, they will need more than the 2 sets of 15 days. Because in order to develop speech and language, they need more time to develop appropriate sound processing skills. This can only happen gradually as their bodies allow it. Typically, I have to work on vestibular function first because language is a skill that comes after the body's basic functions and movement is one of those basic functions. Language is not. Language is secondary to typical survical techniques. So we develop body responses first and then build upon the skills for language development.
Rebecca {public msg} ?
Dorinne Davis {public msg} As the ear becomes more aware of the sounds they hear, language is more clearly understood.
Jdoughty {public msg} ?
Dorinne Davis {public msg} That is where the voice/ear connection occurs. The ear takes in sound in a different manner and the voice will then try to imitate what they hear. In normally developing children, they do not immediately start talking. They begin with movement and babble with their voices for feedback.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} The two things develop in tandem but the movement is most important initially.
Onegary {public msg} ?
Dorinne Davis {public msg} So we work on that first.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Actually the ear begins to make the changes all by itself as it is beginning to process the sound better.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} While the child is listening through special headphones, they can do any kind of activity that is important for development except eat or drink.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} It is being introduced into the US as an educational method because it helps establish many of the connections in the brain for learning.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} In order to learn language, one must process the information appropriately.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Many of the children I see have processing timing lags.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} They process the information but need a long time to do so.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Or they cannot process sound well in background noise.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} When this happens they typically get irritable, overanxious, or fussy.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Perhaps the person also is hypersensitive to sound. In my practice I have found that there are three types of hypersensitivities to sound.
Cyn {public msg} ?
Dorinne Davis {public msg} One is with the actual hearing mechanism. Another is with bone conduction stimulation of sound, and a third is with cochlear hair cell function.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} The Tomatis Method works on the last two. AIT works on the first one.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} The Tomatis Method and AIT are two very different techniques.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Tomatis Method soothes and stimulates the two muscles in the middle ear so that sound is sent correctly to the cochlea and then the brain.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} AIT works on retraining the function of a muscle in the middle ear that helps send information to the cochlea (hearing center) and semi-circular canals (vestibular center).
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Knowing what I have so far said, what questions are there for me?
Moderator {public msg} Rebecca has the first question.
Rebecca {public msg} For a friend that cant be here, children distracting her, Annaleeg wants to know if this would help in a case of Auditory perception disorder. If so, How can it help, She takes child to Audiologist tomorrow. Also, can she email you.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Yes, both Tomatis and AIT can help children with auditory processing disorders. It is the testing that is different and the testing that determines which method is appropriate.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Even though I am an audiologist, all audiologists are not trained in these methods. I am the only audiologist currently trained in Tomatis with certification, so the audiologist may not know about them.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} yes, they may certainly email me directly at davis@thedaviscenter.com.
Rebecca {public msg} Thanks so much!
Dorinne Davis {public msg} I never mind answering questions when supporting someone.
Moderator {public msg} jdoughty has a question.
Rebecca {public msg} I will be sure she sees the replies.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Great, hope it helps.
Jdoughty {public msg} My cousins kid is going to a Tomatis therapy for the first time, I am trying to find out some information, he has brain damage and were wondering if this will be effective this will be? Here is what she emailed me. I know some but not everything.
Rebecca {public msg} ?
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Tomatis has definitely helped with brain damage.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} I have a client who at 18 months of age had botched brain surgery and was told he would never speak.
Jdoughty {public msg} Here is a little info on Austin. He is 2yrs. old and 1yrs ago he caught a virus and didn't get enough oxygen to the brain and it caused brain damage. He had an MRI and the back top part of the brain was damaged.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} After working with me, he has started saying his first words and connecting with his world better.
Jdoughty {public msg} He has development delay and cortical visual impairment (where the brain doesn't understand what the eyes are seeing), consist with cerebral palsy and autism.
Nicolehotchick2 {public msg} That's great Dorinne Davis
Dorinne Davis {public msg} I can't say that Tomatis can make him normal but it seems to help make connections happen in the brain that would have taken a long time to develop.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} We have helped stimulate many children to begin to make connections in the brain that have had a difficult time developing.
Jdoughty {public msg} Is the brain repairable?
Rebecca {public msg} Fantastic!
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Lack of oxygen is difficult but with good support from other specialist such as speech pathologists and OT's, change can occur.
Jdoughty {public msg} He has allot of sensory issues and he does not try to say any words he was saying some words before he got sick. And also he has no hearing problems test say its okay.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Is the brain repairable? Good question. Well, research has demonstrated that the brain can adapt and other parts of the brain over time can learn different skills..
Moderator {action} . o O ( Dorinne Davis can you please inform us what AIT initials mean? )
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Most of the people I work with have normal hearing. For some, better than normal hearing. Processing, however, is what you do with what you hear.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Thank you, yes, AIT means Auditory Integration Training, the method developed by Dr. Guy Berard in France.
Moderator {public msg} thank you.
Rebecca {public msg} thank you.
Jdoughty {public msg} We believe he has normal hearing but the part of the brain damaged was part working with hearing.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} So, for this little boy, it may be possible to help stimulate the parts of the brain affected. Because he is so young, there is a better chance of making change.
Jdoughty {public msg} Great.
Jdoughty {public msg} Usually after the 2 15 days will you need further treatment?
Dorinne Davis {public msg} I have a 33 year old man who also had oxygen deprivation at birth. At 33 he had his first conversation with his mother.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} For the autistic and nonverbal person, yes, if the goal is improved language.
Nicolehotchick2 {public msg} Wow that's great.
Rebecca {public msg} Wow
Jdoughty {public msg} Excellent!!!
Dorinne Davis {public msg} The length of the program depends on the results of the continued Listening Tests. I constantly am measuring the changes with this test.
Jdoughty {public msg} With this type of problem he has what are his chances you would guess on this helping him?
Dorinne Davis {public msg} For the nonverbal, because often the change has to occur with vestibular function prior to language, I have to work more slowly and develop muscle tone, oral motor skills, fine motor skills, etc.
Jdoughty {public msg} What is the timeframe for seeing results?
Dorinne Davis {public msg} I know I can help him to some degree but what exactly would be difficult to say without a Listening Test, or in my office we do something called a Diagnostic Evaluation for Therapy Protocol or DETP which allows me to determine if a therapy is needed and if so in what order.
Annaleeg {public msg} ?
Dorinne Davis {public msg} You can see results immediately for some.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} But for a child with brain damage, at least 6 months to a year.
Jdoughty {public msg} Thanks you have been a GREAT help I hope you don't mind if she email you some questions. That all I have to ask for now.
Moderator {public msg} Onegary has a question
Onegary {public msg} My son has already did AIT - we saw improvement- but that was a few years ago- does that mean tomatis is not the next treatment? What would you suggest the next audio treatment would be. i know you do so much at the davis center-.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} No, I'll be glad to answer questions.
Moderator {action} . o O ( Jdoughty we wish the best for him, hope it helps. )
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Sometimes Tomatis is the next therapy. Does he still have sound sensitivity?
Jdoughty {public msg} Can I get a copy of the conversation when all is said and done?
Onegary {public msg} Yes, but not to the same extent- it was so bad when he was young- now just in large rooms and some signing.
Moderator {public msg} It will be posted on the Transcripts pages Jdoughty.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} I have put together something called the Tree of Sound Enhancement Therapy. I look at all the sound based therapies and figure out which therapy is needed based upon hearing issues, general sound processing and specific auditory processing skills, followed by over all body support. We work solely with sound therapy.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Perhaps he has some residual effects or may have sound sensitivities through bone conduction.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} If so, then Tomatis is definitely the therapy to address this.
Onegary {public msg} is the next step to take him back for an eval.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} You may want to see if any hearing sensitivities exist with a hearing sensitivity audiogram first.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Then find a tomatis practitioner and find out the results of a Listening Test.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} If there are hearing sensitivities, then repeat AIT and then go forward with Tomatis.
Onegary {public msg} Thank you
Dorinne Davis {public msg} You will see the most changes with Tomatis but if the hearing issues are still present, you need to address them first.
Moderator {public msg} Cyn has a question.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} It's like garbage in, garbage out, if you don't do things in the correct order.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} go ahead
Cyn {public msg} Hi, Dr Dorinne Davis: Question 1: Do you have an associate in Los Angeles or someone you recommend in the LA area? Question 2: How do you deal with a child who cannot tolerate wearing headphones?
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Question 1: There used to be someone in LA area who did Tomatis but she just closed her office.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} There is only one person doing Tomatis in CA and they are in northern CA.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Question 2: When I have a child who does not tolerate headphones, I do not worry, although it is the number one question asked by parents.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} We simply support the headphones on the child and typically by day 3, the child no longer is fussing extremely.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} They are told it is their job to keep the headphones on. They don't want to, and my kick, scream, bite, etc. but we get it done.
Cyn {public msg} sorry to interrupt ~~ there is a Tomatis practitioner is Pasadena .... i thought. Thanks for the headphone answer.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} The sound is working even with their fussing.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} I don't know of one in Pasadena but the best way to find one in your area is to go to www.tomatis.com.
Cyn {public msg} thanks very much Dr D.!
Dorinne Davis {public msg} All of these practitioners are not currently certified by Tomatis Development, the creating company but they probably have been doing the method for years.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Therefore, I am sure they do a good job.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} you're welcome. good luck
Cyn {public msg} that's what I was wondering about the Pas. practitioner --- whether or not certified. will check site ... thanks.
Cyn {public msg} yes
Moderator {public msg} Annaleeg has a question.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Let me add then that to be certified in the Tomatis Method today, the person must belong to the International Association of Registered Certified Tomatis Consultants. Good luck.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} go ahead.
Annaleeg {public msg} my other son is 10 mo and has never passed an oae or ABR.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Does he respond to sound, even though he is not passing these tests?
Annaleeg {public msg} Yet he seems to hear and will carry on a babbling conversation with you.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} What does the local audiologist say? Do they feel that he hears and that the results are more with processing?
Annaleeg {public msg} They just keep doing a OAE and we keep getting the same response.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} There have been some autistic children with similar results and with the use of the Tomatis Method, the child has begun to use sound better.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} The Tomatis Method bypasses the typical pathway to the cochlea for these children.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} It stimulates through bone conduction.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} For the hard of hearing child, for example, we can help them develop better auditory discrimination skills that impact their articulation skills.
Annaleeg {public msg} Ok, and on my 3 yo ds, he has had ear infections on top of ear infections. He is now very delayed in speech. Would this help his speech.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Because Tomatis works with the three areas mentioned earlier, change can occur in various ways.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} I have two previous books on middle ear infections and it is one of the reasons I started searching out sound based therapies.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Tomatis and AIT may help a child with middle ear infections.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} because it stimulates the ear in a better fashion and stimulates the brain for language.
Annaleeg {public msg} I know the connection between the Sound the brain hears and the sounds the brain makes tfor talking.
Annaleeg {public msg} So this would help for someone that can't process sounds in a normal way?
Dorinne Davis {public msg} good, for children learning this is especially important.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} yes, it helps clarify some of the basic sound needs.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} These are all necessary precursors for language development.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} One of the indicators that I look for are children who ignore sound.
Annaleeg {public msg} I have always pictured that due to Zach's infections, his Neurons have misfired and made the wrong connection.
Annaleeg {public msg} and missed each other entirely.
Rebecca {action: Annaleeg} attempts to comfort Annaleeg.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Well, I won't say that is possible but I won't say it isn't possible either. People are still researching that. But what did happen is a process of misperception of sound.
Annaleeg {public msg} You know how deaf people if talk to talk, speak in a flat tone?
Dorinne Davis {public msg} When a child misperceives sound through lets say auditory deprivation such as from middle ear infections or lack of stimulation such as that seen in overseas adoptions.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} they often are sensitive to sound, misconstrue what is said, have difficulty forming sounds within words or words within sentences, or lack eye contact to name a few.
Annaleeg {public msg} that is how Zach talks when he does talk.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Yes, deaf people use a flat monotone voice because they do not hear the sounds necessary to modify their voice.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} If Zach talks that way, it can mean that he is either hard of hearing, deaf, or have a severe auditory processing problem.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} I see many children like that . When they talk they have deaf speech. This changes with Tomatis after a number of sessions.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} The Tomatis method incorporates the use of the voice. This is very important to the success of the person.
Annaleeg {public msg} I will look for a tomatis practitioner here in Salt Lake.
Moderator {public msg} Cyn has a question.
Annaleeg {public msg} Thanks.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} There is a practitioner in Denver CO, no one in Salt Lake, but the Denver one uses a modification of the Tomatis Method.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} go ahead Cyn
Cyn {public msg} Do you do speaking engagements and/or do you train other practitioners?
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Yes, I do speaking engagements. I actually am invited all over the world. Just got back from CA and Austria.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} I do not train other practitioners though.
Cyn {public msg} great, thanks!
Moderator {public msg} I wish to thank you all for joining us tonight.. I am sorry the hour is up now.
Moderator {public msg} There will be a transcript of this chat available soon.
Cyn {public msg} thank you Dr Dorinne Davis and mods for a great chat!
Dorinne Davis {public msg} May I say that people can visit my website for more information www.thedaviscenter.com.
Moderator {public msg} Dorinne Davis would you like to say anything.
Moderator {public msg} Cyn you are very welcome
Nicolehotchick2 {public msg} thank you
Annaleeg {action} applauds fervently.
Jdoughty {public msg} Thanks for the help.
Dorinne Davis {public msg} Thank you for the invitation> I have been invited back on June 10th and look forward to sharing other information with you. Good luck.. Sound is the Source!!!
Moderator {action} . o O ( don't forget to visit the website! )
Moderator {public msg} Mark your calendars!!!




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